Jessie Song: “Your Feelings Matter The Most.”

Jessie Song, originally from Shenzhen, China, is a feminist content creator on TikTok with 63k followers. She hopes to foster a global sisterhood with her voice.

1. Could you share how you first came into contact with feminism? Was there a particular event or person that gradually inspired you to commit to a feminist path? In your view, how is life different before and after becoming a feminist?
JS: I think I was influenced by my mother from a young age, because my family environment was different from most Chinese households. My mom was the breadwinner, while my dad was a stay-at-home father for ten years. My mom always taught me that a woman must be independent, self-respecting, self-valuing, and self-loving, and that financial independence is a woman’s first priority. I carried this belief throughout my upbringing. So I believe I’ve been a feminist since childhood, though it’s only in recent years that I’ve become more conscious of learning and understanding feminist ideas.

2. What prompted you to begin sharing and amplifying Chinese feminist voices on overseas social media? Along the way, have you received support or faced resistance from friends or family?
JS: My work itself is connected to overseas social media, and using English feels natural to me. At first, my content wasn’t focused on feminism, but as I kept expressing myself, I realized this was the topic I was truly passionate about. Even though I speak from a Chinese perspective, I believe women’s struggles and hardships are universal. I often receive direct messages from women in other countries saying they feel inspired by my content—that’s exactly why I do this. Only my parents know about my overseas content, and they fully support me.

3. In daily life, do you deliberately take small feminist actions to improve women’s social status? Could you share some examples?
JS: Just the other day I shared something like this on my account—I’m not sure if it counts. I went to test-drive a new car, and the male salesperson introduced a feature called “rear-wheel steering,” saying it was great for narrow turns and “perfect for beginners and you female drivers.” I immediately corrected him, asking why he singled out women: didn’t he know that male drivers have higher accident rates and insurance fees? He apologized right away, saying he didn’t mean it that way. In everyday life, whenever someone—man or woman—makes a sexist remark, I call it out. I used to worry people would think I was making trouble, but now I don’t care. Speaking up actually feels better.

4. From your observation, is there a connection between a society’s acceptance of the LGBTQ+ community and its openness to feminism? How do you understand this relationship?
JS: Here I’d like to reference Chizuko Ueno’s Misogyny, where she writes about the link between homophobia and misogyny: “It is men who make women into ‘women’ (from the male social perspective), but what makes a man a ‘man’ is not women, it is other men. The highest praise for a man comes from other men. Male same-sex social desire is maintained by misogyny and homophobia.” (This is the gist, not the exact quote.)
I think resistance to both LGBTQ+ rights and feminism comes from the same place: these people have stepped outside traditional gender narratives. When men can no longer control or indoctrinate others and profit from women’s sacrifices, they naturally resort to stigmatization.

5. In terms of women’s status and social openness, where do you see differences between China and the West? What do you think causes those differences?
JS: Honestly, I feel that women in China are becoming more radical and clear-eyed. I often see women abroad aspiring to be “trad wives,” whereas more and more women around me are choosing not to marry or have children, or they work for a few years and then go abroad for further study—which makes me truly happy for them. I think the difference lies in upbringing. Many Chinese girls grow up not treated as independent individuals and face belittling, suppressive education from childhood. So when they grow up, it’s natural to want to escape and rebel.

6. The recent MaskPark voyeurism incident has sparked widespread anger among Chinese women, but even more a sense of disappointment and powerlessness toward the state. For feminists who feel disheartened or ready to give up, what words of comfort or encouragement would you offer?
JS: I completely understand that sense of powerlessness and anger—I felt it myself during the pandemic. I eventually eased my anger through journaling and meditation. I’d like to share a quote that inspired me at the time: “If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.” Our individual power is indeed small, so sometimes we have to let go a little for our own well-being.

7. Talking about feminism within the Chinese context often involves special challenges. Could you share the most memorable difficulty or experience you’ve encountered?
JS: Personally I haven’t faced major issues, but many female bloggers I follow are frequently harassed or even have their accounts banned. It’s truly frustrating.

8. If you had the chance to give a first “feminism lesson” to kindergarten girls, what topic would you choose, and why?
JS: I’d choose the theme “Who Are You? Your Feelings Matter Most,” to plant the seed of self-awareness. All control and domestication begin by denying a girl’s feelings. For example: “You can’t be so willful, girls must be sensible.” Growing up in an environment where emotions are suppressed, many girls later don’t know what they want and hesitate to set boundaries. So if we teach them early that “your feelings matter,” and that they can say no even to adults or teachers, they’ll grow up with a stronger sense of self and know they don’t exist to please others.

9. In your view, can a woman who is married with children still call herself a feminist?
JS: Of course she can.

10. During your feminist growth and experiences, is there anyone or anything you especially want to thank? What would you like to say to them?
JS: First, my mother—for always respecting my thoughts, treating me as an independent person, and teaching me the right attitude toward money so I wouldn’t depend on others. Second, the outstanding feminist writers who inspired me, especially Chizuko Ueno. I’m grateful for their wisdom and for sharing it to help more women awaken.

Above is the translated version 以上是翻译版本

1. 能和我们分享一下你最初是怎样接触到女性主义的吗？是否有某个特别的事件或人物让你逐渐坚定地走上了女性主义的道路？在你看来，成为女性主义者前后的生活有什么不同？

JS: 我觉得我是从小受我妈妈妈的熏陶，因为我的成长环境和大多数中国家庭不一样，我妈妈是赚钱养家的，而我爸做了10年的家庭主夫。我妈从小就教我，一个女人一定要自立自尊自重自爱，经济独立对于女性是第一位的，我成长的过程中也一直贯彻着这个理念。所以我认为我从小就是一个女性主义者，只不过近些年才更有意识地去了解学习更多的知识

2. 是什么样的契机，让你开始在海外社交媒体上讲述和传播中国女性主义的声音呢？在这个过程中，你有没有从身边的朋友或家人那里得到支持，或者遇到过阻力？

JS: 我的工作本身就是和海外社媒相关，英语表达对我来说是更舒服的一件事，我一开始的内容并不是围绕女性主义的，只是在慢慢的表达过程中，我才发现这是我真正感兴趣的话题，虽然是从中国人的视角讲述，但我相信全球女性的挣扎和困苦是共通的，我也经常能收到私信来自其他国家的女性说她们从我的内容中受到了启发，这就是我做这件事的意义。我做海外内容这件事情只有爸妈知道，他们非常支持我。

3. 在日常生活中，你会不会刻意去做一些“小小的女性主义行动”，来改善女性在社会中的处境？能和我们分享一些例子吗？

JS: 我前两天在我的账号上分享过这个事情我不知道算不算，我去试驾一款新车，男销售在跟我介绍这款车的一些性能优势时说有“后轮转向”这个功能，窄路掉头很方便，就很适合新手还有你们女司机。我立马纠正了他说为什么要单独说女司机，你难道不知道男司机事故率和保险费都比女司机高么，然后他就立马道歉说不是这个意思。在日常生活中如果遇到谁说出一些比较性别歧视的话（男的女的都有），我都会立马纠正他们，以前还害怕别人觉得我事儿多，现在不管了，反而说出来感觉更好哈哈哈

4. 在你的观察中，一个社会对 LGBTQ+ 群体的接纳程度，和它对女性主义的包容程度之间，会不会存在某种联系？请问你是怎样理解这种关系的呢？

JS: 在这里我想引用上野千鹤子在《厌女》中对恐同和厌女之间的表述：使女人成为女人的是男人（男性社会视角），但使男人成为男人的不是女人，也是男人。对一个男人的最高夸奖，是来自同性的喝彩。男人的同性社会性欲望由厌女和恐同来维系（大概是这个意思不是准确的原文）。我想对LGBTQ+和女性主义的排斥，大概都是这些人脱离了传统的性别叙事吧，没办法控制洗脑再从女性的牺牲中获利，自然是要污名化的。

5.   在女性地位和社会开放度方面，你认为中国和西方的差距在哪里？请问你是从哪些方面看出来的？请问你觉得造成这种差距的原因是什么？

JS: 说实话我反而觉得国内的女性现在更激进清醒一些，反而是经常看到国外的女性还在向往做trad wife. 我身边越来越多的女性都在选择不婚不育、甚至工作几年去国外进修学习的，特别为她们开心。我觉得可能还是成长环境不一样吧，国内的很多女性从小到大是不被当成独立的个体培养的，从小受到的都是贬低打压式教育，所以长大了更想逃离反抗也是很正常的。

6.    最近的 MarkPark 偷拍事件引发了很多中国女性的愤怒，但更多的是对国家的失望和无力。面对那些因此而感到沮丧、甚至想要放弃的女性主义者，你会想对她们说些什么来给予安慰或鼓励呢？

JS: 我是非常理解这种无力感和愤怒的，我在疫情期间也有过这样的感受。后来我是通过写日记、冥想慢慢开解了自己的愤怒。在这里我想分享当时对我启发很大的一句话：if you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. 我们普通的个体力量确实太渺小了，有时候还是需要自己想开一点

7. 在中国语境下谈论女性主义，往往会遇到一些特别的挑战。能和我们分享一下你印象最深的困难或经历吗？

JS: 我个人倒是没有，但是我关注的很多女性博主经常被骂，甚至被封号的，确实很无奈。

8.如果有机会给幼儿园的小小女孩们上人生中的第一堂“女性主义课”，请问你会选择讲什么主题呢？为什么会选这个？

JS: 我会选“你是谁，你的感受最重要”这个主题，把最基础的“自我意识”给种下去。所有的控制、驯化，都是从否定女性的感受开始的。比如“你不能这样任性，女孩要懂事”，那长期在这种压抑自己情绪的环境下长大，很多女孩长大后就不知道自己要什么，也不敢去树立自己的边界。所以如果从小教女孩子们，“你的感受很重要”，哪怕是面对大人、老师，你也可以说不，那更多的女生长大就会有主体性，知道自己不是为别人活的

9.在你看来，你能接受一个已经结婚生子的女性说自己是一名女性主义者吗？

JS: 当然可以

10.    在你女性主义思想成长和历练的过程中，有没有特别想要感谢的人和事？想对ta们说什么？

JS: 第一个肯定是我妈妈，感谢她从小尊重我的想法，把我当成一个独立的个体，感谢她帮我树立正确的金钱观，不去依附他人。第二个就是各位优秀的女性主义作家，对我启发很大的就是上野千鹤子，感谢她们分享自己的智慧帮助更多的女性觉醒。

Above is the untranslated version 以上是未翻译版本

Interview conducted by: Jiaqi Zhang